Welcome Dunston, but sorry about the problems you are having. I've read about the battery not being up to the job but of course it seems it has been denied. I personally do think that some of these problems are down the where it is being made and cost cutting on behalf of Ford. I got the bog standard Studio and to be honest I'm glad I did. I've had window problems and of course the wiper saga but nothing more . . . touches a large piece of wood. I hope they sort out your problem pronto!

 

Thanks for response - I will keep at it.

 

Hi Dunston welcome to the site

You are not alone at all with this issue. There have been a few topic's raised by the club over battery suitability. For instance using heated windscreen (front and rear) was another one to be careful with, as that will also drain the battery to a point where that function becomes unavailable. It seems the brain of the car has a sort of self preservation, it seems that in these circumstances of low charge, the BMAX will deny you the use of some functions of the car, but allows you to start the car above everything else.


A Website called Honest John (which is referred to every now and then in this forum) has pointed the following :


"<strong style="color: rgb67, 67, 67; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Swiss, SunSans-Regular; font-size: 13px;">22-2-2013:[/b]Report of failure of front and rear heated screens on a number of B-Max. Seems that the battery needs to be fully charged for them to function, so if the car is repeatedly used for short runs there is not enough charge for them to work.Another theory is that the batteries were duff to start with because a lot of B-Max have been failing their PDIs for this fault.
"




As Bilbopup has said it's just cost cutting. .... after you with the WOOD Bilbopup..

 

Thanks for your message - it looks as though the battery is not up to the job. When you consider the amount paid for the top of the rang Titanium model it would have been better with hindsight to just get the basic model. Neverthess, I will keep plugging on to Ford and my dealer.

 

Let us know how you get on with the dealer , if you make any headway

 

Hi D-Z and all others,

Since I got my vehicle and found out through the forum that you can access when your vehicle was built and what the build includes via : FORD ETIS, this message (2U486 - BATTERY MONITORING SENSOR)
appears on my vehicle as an outstanding field action, which I understand means that when my vehicle goes for service locally they will see this on the ETIS site and have to rectify it.




I do not know what this is, but with all the issues re: battery and power could the battery monitoring sensor have anything to do with the problems we are having?

 

When I took the car back they told me I wasn't doing enough mileage for the battery to maintain its charge so basically, like you say there is a sensor that shuts down other systems i.e aircon, stop/start, front and rear heated windows so battery can maintain enough energy for the car to be started. I think the battery should be much more powerful than it is and as I do not do a lot of mileage this is what I am hanging trying to put across to the dealer and Ford. Never had a Ford car for 16 years and already beginning to regret going back to them.

 

I received a call from Ford today basically saying that the battery had to be fully charged before the stop/start would work. Obviously Ford just don't want to know of any faults found on this car, so it looks as though I will just have to turn the stop/start off altogether. It is 16 years since I had a Ford - I will never have another. I am writing to Auto Express now letting them know of the B-Max problems in the hope that they will get something done about it.

 

Thats crazy Dunston,

If I had chosen and paid for the STOP/START feature on the BMAX, and then got told that I could not use the feature unless a non-suitable battery is in it's best condition 24/7, then I would put it to ford that as they have supplied a battery that is not sufficient to run all the features of the vehicle at any given time, that I would request the failing feature (stop/start) removed/disabled and the money spent on the upgrade refunded OR they replace the battery with one that can handle the job at no expense to me.

I wonder how citizens advise would see this issue.

 

Agree with D-Z, I'd be hopping mad

sounds like case of mis-selling, unless of course the salesman explained in no uncertain terms when the Stop/Start would and wouldn't work. . . . . . just seen a pink pig flying past the window

 

Ford advertise and shout about the fact that this car has the latest stop-start technology and that is a major reason for buying it.

If it does not work for you then I would suggest contacting:

http://www.motorcodes.co.uk/

However, I think you would need to bear in mind that if you leave the car unused for a long period as I do when I go away for a month or so, you need to make arrangements to look after the battery. I always disconnected the battery on previous cars but not sure if you could do that with this car as it has so much electronic technology. I have also had a relative take the car for a day or two a month.

Because it has so much electronic technology then it is always going to be draining the battery and that will affect stop-start if for an extended period of maybe even a week until the battery is brought back up to a reasonable level of charge. Perhaps you would need to use the car at least once a week? I don't think it needs to be fully charged because if that was so, then you can expect your stop-start to stop working when the battery ages as it's capacity to hold the original charge will deteriorate?

In my case I regard the stop-start as a bonus and if it works, it works, if not the I don't worry. However, I do use the car more than once per week so it is probably working as it should.

 

Thanks for your reply. I will write to Ford as suggested and see what they say.I subscribe to Auto Express and have sent them an email on the subject - see what happens. I am taking the car in for the windscreen wipers to be adjusted and will also mention it to them.[

 

Thanks for your reply. I will write to Ford as suggested and see what they say.I subscribe to Auto Express and have sent them an email on the subject - see what happens. I am taking the car in for the windscreen wipers to be adjusted and will also mention it to them.[

I suggested Motorcodes, not Ford as a place to complain. Motorcodes will take up your complaint with Ford on your behalf if they think it is justified and you are able to suggest a solution.

 

It is't good eough for Ford to say the car must be used for more than short journies. If you buy the stop/start option then you should expect it to work. If it fails to work for a reason that the manufacturer is aware of, you must be told. If you are kept in the dark and have problems with either this known problem or that known problem, you should tell Ford and your dealer that your vehicle as sold is "NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE" under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act. I had a beautiful BMAX which I thought was the best designed vehicle for access from a wheelchair. The SYNC system also was of great use to me as a disabled driver. Unfortunately, due to many electrical faults, I quoted the above and have returned the BMAX and opted for a more reliable marque (despite being a satisfied Ford customer for 15 years).

I hope you get some satisfaction from the BMAX and that Ford or your dealer will fix the problem or refund your money. Do seek advice from CAB.

 

Have contacted Auto Express who have now come on board. When and if I hear anything further I will let everyone know. In the meantime the Deputy Editior has gotten a B-Max to evaluate and updates will be posted in the magazine every few weeks which should be of interest to members. If anyone else has any problems can I suggest you put them to Auto Express as well and we will see what happens.

 

I too have had issues with stop/start, I use my car daily to and from work round trip
of about 14 miles plus usual weekend driving to shops
etc.



The stop/start has been working fine until recently and it is annoying because it is one of the reasons I




bought
the Titanium. Anyway just received a recall letter from Ford ref the Auxilliary
heater cables and




have
booked in for next week to get it sorted, at the same time they can have a look at the stop/start




problem
. If they fob me off with battery issues then I will be contacting the MD direct!!!

 

Did anyone see my article in Auto Express last week? Nothing really forthcoming but was given a few more details of why the system doesn't work i.e. too hot, too cold, air con on, heated front and rear screen on, don't do enough miles, front seat belts not engaged. Think maybe Auto Express are not on the side of the motorist. Maybe Ford should take the system off the car altogether. I use my car every day and do about 100 plus miles a week. Surely to goodness in this day and age this is sufficient to keep the battery charged. Am still pressing on however.

Took car in for its recall today and asked if they would adjust the wipers at the same time. Told this was not necessary, there was nothing wrong with them. I will take my car to another dealer as this one sucks. No-one wants to give any assistance so am now going to try Motor Codes and see what happens with them.

 

Dunston

Useful information thanks....
what we need is a concerted effort from all of us to lobby Ford into sorting out this unacceptable situation. If you pay for a service you expect it to be available and working, stop/start obviously has a problem........please fix it Ford

 

Faxed a letter to Ford Motor Co. this morning and got a call from them this afternoon. Still the same old tune, that I don't do enough mileage. This is a real fob off considering I use the car every day and clock up over 100 miles a week. I took the battery for an independent test which revealed that the battery was 100% but it only had a 66% charge which in his opinion meant that all systems should work satisfactorily. Ford recommend a third opinion from another Ford dealer, as I have rejected Jennings Ford at Gateshead as they just don't want to know. Will make an appointment with another dealer tomorrow and see what happens from there. We are going round in circles at present and I think Ford hope I will just pack in and accept things - wrong.

 

Next direction is media. Paper, BBC, Radio...

 

I e-mailed the Ford website contact for customer relations and received a call from them on Thursday asking me to contact my local dealer to arrange to take the car in for a technical check.

Now it seems to me that reading this forum in
the subject of battery charge that there is an issue with the B-Max in that the battery appears incapable of providing enough power for all the electronics.


As I mentioned in a previous comment, this is not acceptable Ford and if it is the case then we need a better battery provided. Yes I agree that I do not use stop/start everyday however, it was on the car spec and therefore should be expected to function, despite not driving lots a miles
per week.


I will let you know how the visit to Ford dealer goes on Thursday, however, my gut instinct is that they will fully charge the battery, and say stop/start is now functioning but....
unless you do lots of miles per week it will not last!!


Please Ford can you address this issue and look into the battery problem that appears to be affecting a number of owners, me included.

 

HI guys,
as you can see from my post under technical forum "battery doesn't fully charge" I've noticed the same problem even though I do not have start/stop!

I'm pretty sure that the issue is not about the battery which is itself adequate according to my tests (I do sell batteries for any kind of vehicle). The issue is about the smart alternator management system which doesn't charge the battery more than 60% to save on fuel consumption...

I've read on a technical paper which I cannot find anymore that if the smart alternator "fails" it enters a recovery mode which simply keeps it always on charging the battery at a constant voltage of 13,5 Volts as normal alternators do and so always charging the battery at 100% even on relatively short distances! I'm quite sure that ANY electrical problem can be solved by forcing the smart alternator into recovery mode so that it just behaves normally. I've discovered that the smart charge is governed by the PCM to which the alternator is connected by a 3 PIN plug.

In some days I'm going to the Ford dealer and ask them if they can turn off the "smart" system, in case they say no I'm gonna unplug the 3PIN plug to PCM, the only problem about doing that is that the battery light whould probably pop up...

any ideas or comments?

Edited by: Pilitio

 

Cheers all. Just looking around the internet to see how people are doing with the various stop start systems being offered by the different manufacturers. I have an interest in the different energy storage devices that are being used, some being better and some worse. Not sure if this forum will allow links but this article may be of interest. If the link doesn't post as a link you can just Google, search, for the title and you should find the article.

<h1>The Shocking Truth About Start-Stop Systems</h1>
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/the-shocking-truth-about-start-stop-systems/

 

This is an issue I am familiar with. The problem is that currentbattery technology is not up to the task of stop/start demands. Not even the high-end AGM batteries with the carbon paste additives. If you are technically savvy, try googling some terms like "dynamic charge acceptance"and "cycle life" in combination with "stop/start." You'll learn a lot.
The problem goes like this. A stop/start system has to power a lot of load during the engine-off events and still have enough charge left to restart the car. After restart, the alternator has to then crank out higher current to quickly recharge the battery so it can be ready for the next engine-off event.

Batteries have a characteristic called dynamic charge acceptance, which is a limit on how quickly they can be recharged by the alternator or regenerative braking. The battery also has a characteristic called cycle life. Stop/start systems go through many more off and on cycles than regular cars and also discharge the battery more during the off cycle to maintain your comfort.Standard lead-acid batteries (LABs) do not have very good charge acceptance and, whiletheir cycle life isadequate for aconventional car,they are wholly unsuitable for stop/start. To address the problem auto makers use a newer battery type called Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) with carbon paste additives in the electrodes to improve charge acceptance and cycle life. Although it is an improvement over LABs in terms of cycle life and charge acceptance, the charge acceptance still begins to degrade after a few hundred stop start cycles due to sulfation of the electrodes. The result is that thesystem works great at first, but after charge acceptance begins to degrade, you need to drive farther between engine off events to allow the battery to fully charge. So, you begin to notice the stop/start does not seem to work as frequently and, when it is off, it may not stay off as long as it once did. After about 6 months to one year of normal driving it will not work at all, but the battery can still retain enough entergy to start your car at the beginning of your trip. So the car remains functional, but the advantages of stop/start are no longer available.Ford can give you a new top-of-the-line AGM battery, but you will be in the same situationsix months toa year later.

Ford is well aware of this problem, as are all automakers, though they will never admit it in a warranty claim. Battery makers are also aware of the problem and the race is on to find a solution. A lot of companies are now offering better lithium batteries, but these are presentlyfar too expensive and lithium batteries don't like the heat under the bonnet. Others are offering combinations of batteries with super-capacitors because the capacitors retain high charge acceptance for thousands of cycles. BMW is presently testing a different type of battery altogether, called lead-carbon (PbC, not to be confused with carbon additives), which acts as a hybrid battery-supercapacitor andis also capable of retaining charge acceptance for thousands of cycles. Unfortunatelyit is not available to the consumer yet, and would probably require some design changes because of the different voltage profile.
The stop/start concept is a great one. It is a shame that it is getting a bad reputation so early on because of the battery issues. Until the battery technology catches up, however, there probably is not much you can do except toconvince Ford to buy you a new AGM battery every year until the warranty is up. The more expensive you can make this for Ford, the more incentive they will have to improve the battery technology used in their S/S systems.

Edited by: jimw1960

 

Its nice that in the Ford Focus back in 2010, can address the issue by adding an ADDITIONAL battery, and software updates that allow the batteries to charge quicker, but come forward 3 years they remove the second battery with the stop start feature, and do not add any software updates for battery charging...

Source Site:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/ford/7196440/Ford-Focus-Econetic-StopStart-review.html





Edited by: Davis_Zadian