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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not strictly B Max related unless you are speeding in a B Max, but does anyone know what the definition of income to calculate these fines is? I have been googling for an hour and cant find anything.

Everything i read seems to relate to weekly pay or salary, but is unearned income included?

I ask, because I have only investment income, so if they were to ask me what my salary is, i could honestly say £0.Edited by: cianpars
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ah well, no replies. Will just have to try it and see.

What do you get for doing 120 down the M4?Edited by: cianpars
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I shall save the speed for my forthcoming track day then, though I should point out that I have only clocked up one speeding ticket in over 40 years of driving (touch wood).

The question was more of a "what if" question, as the definition of income aspect is still confusing me.

Would also point out that the speeding guidelines allow for 10% + 2 mph, meaning that you can drive at 79 mph on the motorway. My speedo also under reads by 8% allowing the speedometer to read up to 85 mph before I should recieve a ticket.

Of course, it can be dangerous to drive at 40 in poor weather, but 80 on a clear motorway in fine weather is certainly not dangerous in a modern car.
 

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@cianpars: I feel sure that income will be given the broadest definition possible and the chances of you being fined x% of £0.00 (=£0.00) will be nil.

I was discussing with my brother-in-law the imminent clampdown on speeding drivers and he said that he'd heard that car speedos are set to approximately 10% lower than the speed showing on the dial. So anyone doing a displayed 30mph will really only be travelling at 27mph. I mentally dismissed this as one of those fantasies that pass for truth. However, today I passed one of those speed warning signs which display your speed and it informed me that my speed was 26mph. I quickly checked the speedo and that showed 30mph. So, I ask is there any truth to the rumour?

Finally, I'd also heard that speeding guidelines allow for 10%+2 mph, but my recent ticket was for 35mph, which was a nasty surprise. It seems that guidelines can be ignored, so beware!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I kind of guessed that it wouldnt be 0% of 0.

Ive used a satnav which shows my speed for many years and it always shows nearly 10% less than my speedometer.

If I was really a boy racer, i wouldnt be driving ab max, would i, though like mist, i occasiinally exceed the speed likit a bit.

Ryre wear can also affect the speedo reading.
 

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This discrepancy in car speedo's is why lorries always want to go faster in 50mph limits on motorways, their Tachograph Speedo's are very accurate, like you Ian I take the speed from the Sat Nav.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Unfortunately, the b max satnav doesnt show speed, but my tomtom does.

When i am in a speed limit, i usually set cruise control to about 10% higher.
 

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car speedos can over read by 10% +6.25 mph
they must not under read.
so if your speedo says 35mph, you could be doing anything between 26 and 35 mph
ref: iva manual for M1 (passenger vehicles)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, i have read that Gremlin. In my Fiesta the speedo overread by 10% but in the b max it is 8%. I guess it will go up as the front tyres wear.

Still, nobody can provide a definition of income. Even all kinds of google search havent provided a concrete definition. I guess the only way to find out is to ask a lawyer (or wait until I get a ticket).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hywel S Wales said:
Better still - don't speed - don't get a ticket - don't concern yourself about it !!
Sometimes hard not to when you pull out to overtake someone and he puts his foot down. Seems that some people dont like being overtaken (especially BMW drivers) :)Edited by: cianpars
 

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Gremlin said:
car speedos can over read by 10% +6.25 mph
they must not under read.
so if your speedo says 35mph, you could be doing anything between 26 and 35 mph
ref: iva manual for M1 (passenger vehicles)
PS this makes more sense when you see it as 10% plus 10kmh (rather than 6.25mph)
 

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The new fines will be calculated based on the Fine Band

Fine bands are calculated in this way




<table style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: Lato, Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: line; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; width: 565px; color: rgb51, 51, 51;"><t style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 1px 0px 0px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: initial; border-bottom-style: initial; border-left-style: initial; border-top-color: rgb204, 204, 204; border-right-color: initial; border-bottom-color: initial; border-left-color: initial; border-: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Speed Limit (mph)[/b]</td><td colspan="3" style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Recorded speed (mph)[/b]</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;"></td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Band C[/b]</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Band B[/b]</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Band A[/b]</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">20</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">41 and above</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">31 - 41</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">21 - 30</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">30</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">51 and above</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">41 - 50</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">31 - 40</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">40</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">66 and above</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">56 - 65</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">41 - 55</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">50</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">76 and above</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">66 - 75</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">51 - 65</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">60</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">91 and above</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">81 - 90</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">61- 80</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">70</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">101 and above</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">91 - 100</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">71 - 90</td></tr></t></table>
The fines that apply within each band are as follows, note that anything in Band C will likely also produce a ban and anything above 100 makes that pretty much a certainty with a good chance of jail time.


If you have a clean license and your speed falls into Band A you mat qualify for a speed awareness course instead of prosecution. Note that this is at the discretion of the cop who pulls you so no be polite and apologetic if caught.


<table style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: Lato, Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: line; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; width: 565px; color: rgb51, 51, 51;"><t style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 1px 0px 0px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: initial; border-bottom-style: initial; border-left-style: initial; border-top-color: rgb204, 204, 204; border-right-color: initial; border-bottom-color: initial; border-left-color: initial; border-: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;"></td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Starting point[/b]</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Range[/b]</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Fine Band A[/b]</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">50% of weekly income
</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">25 ""“ 75% of weekly income
</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Fine Band B[/b]</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">100% of weekly income
</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle;">75 ""“ 125% of weekly income
</td></tr><tr style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: "Lato bold", Arial, Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", sans-serif; vertical-align: line;">Fine Band C[/b]</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">150% of weekly income
</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 4px 10px 4px 5px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; : rgb229, 229, 229;">125 ""“ 175% of weekly incom
</td></tr></t></table>
 

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Gremlin said:
car speedos can over read by 10% +6.25 mph
they must not under read.
so if your speedo says 35mph, you could be doing anything between 26 and 35 mph
ref: iva manual for M1 (passenger vehicles)

My BMax shows 74 mph when my Satnav says 70 mph. Satnavs are reading actual distance and time travelled while speedos are counting wheel rpm from the ABS sensor. One caveat is that Satnavs may not have the latest limit so dont rely on the readout from the GPS to decide the limit.


In practise most UK police forces follow guidance issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers which mean that you are extreme;y unlikely to be done for doing less than 10% + 3 mph over the limit so on a dual carriageway with a 70 limit you are probably going to be OK at up to 80 true speed. Note some forces DO disregard this and prosecute for anything over the limit and most traffic cops are unlikely to respond well to verbal abuse.
 
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