[Berlin Bmax]

I have pretty much lost faith in Ford and especially Ford's customer service. I've lived in Berlin for 8 years so I'm used to very bad customer service but the two Ford dealerships I have dealt have really excelled themselves.


Since buying a second-hand two-year-old Ford B-max (125PS 1.0L ecoboost) 6 weeks ago the engine had been intermittently doing strange things like running unevenly and losing power whilst driving causing the whole car to jerk along (quite worrying at 80km/h).

I took the car back to dealer who fixed another problem I had had (the automatic start-stop wasn't working at all) but failed to find the root cause of the engine running problem. There were no fault codes recorded so the "mechanics" were unable to do anything.


The day after picking up the car again, the engine was running very strangely and then just died as I was driving in busy town traffic. There was no dashboard light and no failure message. The engine wouldn't restart (engine turned over but wouldn't start) so I was forced to slowly roll (luckily I was on a downhill stretch!) off to the side of the road.


So once again, the poor, sick little B-max goes back to the dealer (this time a different one and on the back of a low-loader).


A day later the dealer finally gets around to looking at the car which (reportedly and rather annoyingly) started first time. A check of the computer revealed no faults.


The B-max appears to have quite a history of engine problems but has anyone heard of such a serious problem without any fault codes or warning lights being activated?


Without the fault codes both Ford dealers say they are unable (or unwilling) to change any parts as apparently Ford won't reimburse them for the work under the guarantee.


I even have a video showing the rev counter jumping around and dropping down below 500rpm at idle (I took the video whilst stopped at a traffic light with the automatic start-stop disengaged).


All help and suggestions much appreciated!

 

[jackkook]

Sorry B B I do not think a problem like yours has appeared on this site yet, but there is an ex ford mechanic on the site he may have some suggestions.

Edited by: jackkook

 

[Andymayo]

Not good. Mine has had loss of power and engine malfunction message, twice after filling up. . Seemed to be that filling up after low fuel would block something. I've had a couple times, but switch engine off and on again and it's been ok. Had the orange spanner come on yest but have only done 3000miles from new? Keep us updated. I have the 100 ecoboost..

 

[Berlin Bmax]

The German Ford dealer employees (I refuse to call them mechanics as I don't think that plugging in a computer and then giving up really qualifies them for such a title) are also equally puzzled. So puzzled in fact that they gave my B-max a clean bill of health and let me drive it off only to have the engine die on me again (this time on the Autobahn at 120km/h...)

Again, no dashboard lights or other visual indication of something being wrong. The car just jerked back and forth, stopped responding to the gas pedal movement and then the engine coughed and cut out as I drifted below 50km/h.


All attempts to re-start the engine failed. It either turned over and never caught on or started and the coughed and died within a few seconds.


After waiting on the hard shoulder for 3 hours in the rain for the ADAC (Ford mobility guarantee line didn't answer again) the sick little car is now visiting its THIRD Ford dealer in as many weeks.


Encouragingly, this time the ADAC road-side help chap managed to find three fault codes : P0088, P0089 and P132B.


P0088 and P0089 relate to fuel pressure regulation which would seem to point in the right direction (my guess from the symptoms was a blocked fuel line or failed/failing pump).


P132B is a turbo fault which might also be about right but a quick bit of googling seems only to suggest this being common on the older Ford Turbo Diesels not the new petrol eco-boost engines.


Anyone have any experience with these codes? I (and the Ford employees here in Germany) could certainly do with some help!


Many thanks!

 

[Berlin Bmax]

The story continues...

By the time the car was carried on the low-loader from one Ford dealer back to the orignal Ford dealer (where I bought it) the fault codes had mysteriously disappeared.


After holding on to the car for a week in which they managed to stretch their ingenuity to "checking some wires" but have made no attempt at corrective action, Ford have claimed (again) that the car has no problems.


I will pick it back up tomorrow and see how far I get this time...

 

[KeithW]

The symptoms are those you would classically expect from fuel starvation. Have them check the fuel pump, fuel linesand tank ventilation systems. These problems often show the way you describe as after a while being stalled fuel can flow back into the system and the car starts.

 

[Berlin Bmax]

Thanks for the advice, I had come to a similar conclusion however as the car is still under guarantee and Germany doesn't understand the concept of customer service unless I want to pay out of my own pocket, the dealer gets to call the shots on what work is done.

No fault codes = no corrective action

The ford dealer is absolutely convinced that the engine (or fuel system) can't have any problems that won't be detected and saved as a fault code.

 

[Hywel S Wales]

Have a look at this website - may help ?




http://www.justanswer.co.uk/ford/

 

[Berlin Bmax]

UPDATE:
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">The B-max disaster continues. Driving home from the Ford garage (after yet another reassurance that the car was fine) the engine died AGAIN (now the third time). This time in the middle of a busy intersection. Once again, the engine either wouldn't restart (turned over and didn't start) or started and died after a couple of seconds. I had to get rolled out of the intersection onto a bike path by some off-duty police who happened to be walking by.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">The good news is that the ADAC (the German AA) call out mechanic managed to find the problem (or at least a problem) that had eluded the Ford mechanics at three different Ford service centres. It took him about 2 minutes...
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">After 5 or 6 tries at starting the engine over a period of 30 minutes, we managed to get it running. The ADAC mechanic then simply opened the bonnet and started poking each visible wire, connector and sensor on the engine. He hit the jackpot on the third poke where a light touch on the fuel rail pressure sensor caused the engine to immediately cough and die. We repeated the proceedure three times just to make sure.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">To get me home, he sprayed the connector with something like WD40 and taped the cable down. I drove 15km home without any problems.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">There are however still two strange things that set this apart from a simple sensor fault:
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">1. If we quickly pull the connector from the fuel rail pressure sensor (simulating a hard fault of the sensor) the engine keeps running but enters the "limp home mode" where the revs are limited to 2000rpm. However a wiggle of wire causes the engine to cough and die.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">2. Throughout the whole time no fault code relating to the sensor was flagged and no engine management warning light was displayed (even when the car was in "limp home mode").
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">Has anyone ever seen this before? All the videos on Youtube of ecoboost problems always show the engine management system announcing a problem.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">I am really disappointed (and very concerned) that the engine management system of the B-max (and presumably all other cars with the 1.0L ecoboost) is so fickle that a simple sensor fault causes the engine to cut out. I've now been left without a running engine three times - twice in city traffic and once on the Autobahn. Luckily I was on my own all three times but I could easily have been with my 18month old in the back.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">My last car was a Smart Fortwo which had loads of engine management sensor problems but I was always given a nice warning light, a clear fault code and most importantly of all: the engine always kept running!
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">Even if the Ford garage agrees to replace the fuel rail pressure sensor under the warranty, I am still very reluctant to accept the car back because I have no idea what will happen when the next sensor goes on the blink.
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">Many thanks again for reading and for all of the constructive help!
<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">

<div style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">p.s. I have a whole bunch of videos showing the engine spluttering and dying. Is there any way to post them here?

 

[Berlin Bmax]

Update again:

The Ford dealer has replaced the fuel rail sensor and now wants to give me the car back.

Problem is that I am still not convinced that the engine management system (specifically the bit that should recognise faults and record codes) is working correctly.

Does anyone know (or even better wants to test!) what happens when you remove the plug from the top of the fuel rail pressure sensor on a running engine?

From watching the diagnostic computer that the road side mechanic used, the system registered a fuel pressure of 999 bar which one would have expected to flag a fault (and activate the engine management lamp on the dashboard). However, my car doesn't do that.

Does anyone know how the engine management system can be tested without relying on fault codes?

 

[KeithW]

I would expect that when sensor input is lost the system would enter limp home mode and the fault warning light come on. The rationale for what happened here seems to be that if the computer is receiving a very high level it simply shuts down the pump. You really wouldn't want 999 bar pressure in that common rail pipe.
Under the circumstances this seems a reasonable assumption however the fault code should have been recorded. However I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Re programming the management system is not a trivial matter and without a test rig costing a LOT of money there is no way for you or any normal mechanic to test it.

Bottom line is this seems like a rare fault that has been identifiedand you should take the car back.